Tapping into the Power of Your Email List with Paul Gowder

Hey there, friend. Welcome back to the Crank It Up podcast. Today we have my dear friend, Paul Gowder. Paul is the owner and founder of powwows.com, a leading online community celebrating Native American arts and culture.

Now here is what is so cool about Paul. He has built… listen up entrepreneurs. He has built one of the largest and most engaged online communities in the world. In fact, he told me about a big milestone that probably by the time this airs, he has hit, and it is big.

Mastering Email Marketing: Paul Gowder Shares Proven Techniques for Business Growth

So you definitely wanna check out the PowWow Community on social media. But listen, just because he’s on social media, that’s not the only way he connects with his community, and that’s what we talk about today. In fact, what makes this conversation so cool is that it is literally a walk and talk.

Paul was here staying on the Walt Disney World Resort property, and we hooked up these really amazing little mics that he has, and we literally took a walk.

So you are gonna hear the sights and sounds of the Walt Disney World Resort. And behind you, you’re gonna hear some stuff from studios, you’re gonna hear us having conversation with people as they walk by.

You’re gonna hear the music. You’re just going to get the ambiance of the Yacht and Beach Club, Epcot, and Hollywood Studios as we walk and talk and specifically walk and talk about email.

Just because Paul has built this incredible engaged online community, he also knows that on Facebook, he doesn’t own any of that. He’s gotten very good at email. And, yes, this is a really cool conversation because it’s a walk and talk, which is the first one that I’ve ever done.

It’s also a really good conversation because I personally have worked with Paul and can attest to his ninja abilities.

So if you are an entrepreneur, if you’re in a side hustle, if you’d like to take your passion project to the next level, you need an email list, and Paul is here to tell you how to do it. So tune in, take some notes, get ready. This is gonna be a great conversation.

Oh my gosh. This is the coolest thing ever.

Julie [00:03:07]:
And we’re just gonna have a conversation about email and really working smarter, not harder. I think that’s a real gift that Paul has. It’s something he’s really helped me with, and that’s what we’re gonna talk about today. Paul Gowder, how are you?

Paul [00:03:35]:
Oh, I appreciate it. Love being here. And, you know, staying here, you said let’s do this. I was like, we gotta walk.

Julie [00:03:42]:
Right?

Paul [00:03:42]:
We have to. Julie, you can’t, you can’t sit with all the energy you bring. Right? I don’t know.

Julie [00:03:47]:
That’s right.

Paul [00:03:47]:
How I could do that.

Julie [00:03:48]:
So also, we were just talking about where we were. I couldn’t decide which was which. It’s so chilly. Let me just set the stage for you a little bit. There’s not a cloud in the sky. It is so sunny, it’s like 60 degrees. And so I’m acting like it’s 30 degrees. It’s gorgeous.

Paul [00:04:04]:
I tried to work at lunch and always seemed to have we’re outside in the shade. It lasted about 15 minutes. I’m like, no. No. No. No. No. No.

Paul [00:04:11]:
No. This is a normal floor. Let’s go inside.

Julie [00:04:12]:
Right? Too cold. This is too cold. So Paul and I met a couple years ago speaking of Disney, we met a couple years ago at a mastermind orchestrated by our mutual friend, Lou Mangelo, that I’ve referenced lots of times. Lou’s a friend of the pod, and he’s been on several times.

And he does this really awesome live weekend retreat for entrepreneurs called Momentum. And that’s where I first met you. And you spoke that year, but it wasn’t until really last year when you talked about email that you blew my mind. And I was like, okay.

If I got nothing else out of this weekend and I just took away what Paul told me to do, it literally changed my business. Truly, it has changed my business. So tell me where did you first learn or how did you first learn or where did the light bulb come on for you that, like, email email is the way. This is the way. Why email?

Paul [00:05:09]:
So for me, over the years, I’ve done forums. We’ve done social media. We’ve done Facebook groups. And

Julie [00:05:17]:
And when you say we, what do you mean?

Paul [00:05:18]:
powwows.com.

Julie [00:05:19]:
Okay.

Paul [00:05:19]:
The website that I built, we started in 1996. So I’ve had the opportunity to see how social media online technology changes over time. I went through the phase where we had a forum, the bulletin forum. Lou, I reminisce about this. A message board. Right. A message board. That’s how we started.

Hundreds of thousands of members, millions of posts a year, and then it went away with Facebook. And so what do you do? Right? And so

Julie [00:05:44]:
So that’s where you started to build your community.

Paul [00:05:47]:
Yes.

Julie [00:05:47]:
Around people who wanted to go to pow wows. They were doing pow wows. They wanted to attend pow wows. They wanted information about pow wows, a passion of yours as well. You started them on these message boards.

Paul [00:05:58]:
Exactly. And, you know, when you see something like forums die almost overnight because of social media, That’s when I realized, I’ve got to have something that I own, and email is the thing.

Julie [00:06:11]:
Got it.

Email Marketing Will Always Persist and Thrive Amidst All The Social Media Changes

Paul [00:06:12]:
And so many people are leaving email as kind of the red headed stepchild of their business. They’re not using it fully there. It’s that thing that they have, but they don’t utilize.

We’re spending so much time worrying about our TikToks and our, you know, all this other stuff. Email is the thing that will persist through all of these changes.

That’s where really the light bulb went on for me if I wanted to control something.

Julie [00:06:36]:
I feel that very deeply because I work with a lot of women and so much of our conversation in regard to building our business because we build on social media. You know, there was a time where you build live and in person, but social media really is the way we communicate now.

And so we do a lot of building on social media because for as amazing as live and in person is, which we can’t. We can agree that it is. Like, even in thinking in terms of momentum, the workshop that we attended, there’s 50 people in that room. Okay.

Can the ripple effect be great? Yes. Can you also do a post on social media that reaches 5,000.

So it’s like, you know, how are you implementing both? But if we’re talking about building on social media, I do find that so many of the women that I work with are so wrapped up in what I post, when I post, how I post. I don’t know what to post, so I’m just not posting. And then here we are with no business being built because we’re not posting on social media.

Paul [00:07:36]:
So many people are scared to turn the camera on. Right?

And, again, that’s a place where I feel like I don’t like being on camera either. I do it, and Lou over the years has pushed me more and more toward that, but I feel very comfortable in having conversations in email. To me, that’s a medium where I can have those exchanges, and it feels like it’s my comfortable place.

Julie [00:08:01]:
Do you think it’s more intimate?

Paul [00:08:03]:
I think it can be.

Emails are more intimate and more conducive to conversations

Julie [00:08:04]:
Yeah. It feels a little bit more because is it right in your inbox? Like, it feels a little more personal?

Paul [00:08:10]:
Right. I do feel like, You know, when you do it the right way and a reader gets that email and they connect with it, they send you a response, and then you start having a conversation, I feel like it is very personal then.

Because whatever hit them in that email that made them respond, you really connected with them on a personal level.

And whether it’s them just being excited for whatever you’re talking about or I’ve had people tell me really personal stories and share things, and they’re like, wow. Okay. This is really working. Right?

Julie [00:08:40]:
Yeah. Yeah. They because they just hit respond, and they’re and they’re just there it is. Here’s their reply. That’s so interesting. Okay. So you started on these message boards on these forums. And from there, when that started to die, were you already starting to integrate email because you’re so ahead of your time.

And were you already starting to do it then, or were you like, wait. Now that this form is gone, I need to get into it then. Like, when did it start for you?

Paul [00:09:08]:
It was somewhere in the middle of the forum boom that I was having that I realized that the forum had a way to do email. And that’s why I started using their email tools to send out messages and tell more people what was going on because, you know, nowadays, we depend on an algorithm to show us what the latest post was.

In the forums, you needed people to come to it. Now the forum would deliver and say, here’s everything. You know, they wouldn’t there’s no algorithm to hide it, but they had to come back to see it.

So that’s when I first started realizing that email is a way to continue the conversations, maybe when you have a person who hasn’t been to your website in a couple days or a week or a month. You can continue to engage with them and remind them of things.

Julie [00:09:56]:
So this is even more applicable today when people may feel like they wanna stay off social media for whatever reasons

Paul [00:10:05]:
Right.

Julie [00:10:06]:
Well, if they’re off social media, they’re not seeing what you’re putting out. But most people are not staying off their email. It’s too important. Their bills are coming in there.

They’re it’s just it’s too but their work stuff’s coming in there. Okay. So you decided to start emailing. Now you said the forum had tools for email, so you used those for a little while.

Paul [00:10:25]:
I did. I did. And then as I said, the forums, it just started dying, with Facebook. In fact, I remember a day, it was a hard day, that I started getting emails from my moderators, from my longtime dedicated members. The email that hit me the worst, I remember it very vividly. Somebody said, hey, it’s been a good run. Pow Wow’s awesome.

Sorry you’re dead. We’re all going to Facebook.

Julie [00:10:56]:
So sorry you’re dead. Like, your forum’s dead.

Paul [00:10:58]:
It’s over.

Julie [00:10:59]:
It’s been awesome, but we’re all moving to Facebook. Yes. Wow. So did you move to Facebook?

Paul [00:11:07]:
We did.

Julie [00:11:07]:
So you took your Pow Wow group.

Paul [00:11:11]:
Well, back then, they didn’t have Facebook groups. They only had pages, so we built the page first.

Julie [00:11:17]:
Wow.

Paul [00:11:17]:
But we had to know, that was a big pivot. We had to at the time, we were mostly user generated content. We were depending on people posting the forums. That was our traffic. That was our engagement. Right. So we had to move to okay. If we’re not gonna have forums, how can we continue to engage people, have a reason for them to come back.

We know we have the pow wow calendar. We have an event calendar. That’s always been a key part of our business. So at that point, we made the pivot to start writing articles, to start building resources.

Julie [00:11:49]:
So blogging. Wow. So as you’re pivoting, I think this is the piece where people sometimes get a little sideways too because they’ll think, why don’t I have anyone? It’s almost like the email list is supposed to just materialize.

Like, you’re just supposed to wake up, and it’s just gonna be there. Yes. So I could hear people going, well, I don’t have an email list. What am I supposed to do? Okay.

Julie [00:12:13]:
So how did you start generating an email? So…. should we walk to his Hollywood Studios? By the way, we’re just walking. We’re just walking. That’s why you hear all the noise, but we’re just walking on this gorgeous day in Florida because we can.

Paul [00:12:30]:
It’s pretty down here.

Julie [00:12:31]:
So we’re gonna walk towards Hollywood Studios.

Paul [00:12:33]:
We’ve got to move down Oh. Yes. It’s on the board. It’s on our dream board.

Julie [00:12:37]:
So Yes. You do.

Paul [00:12:38]:
You know, one of the things we realized, again, in this transition period, we had to take a deep look and ask ourselves, what is it that causes people to come back?

To the website. To yeah. What is it people are asking for? And so, of course, the calendar was number one.

Julie [00:12:58]:
The calendar of pow wows across the country.

Paul [00:13:00]:
And then it was also people wanted to know, if you’re new and you’re going to your 1st powwow or maybe you’ve been to a few and you just still don’t understand it, you don’t know the etiquette or, you know, the procedures or whatever.

It was those kinds of information things, and that’s really how we started building the list. You know, if you subscribe, I’m gonna send you all the new powwows on the calendar. I’m going to send you, here are the things you need to know when you go to your first powwow.

What is it that they’re wanting? And that’s your opt in. Right? That’s your call. That’s your hook.

Julie [00:13:35]:
You’re trading value

Paul [00:13:37]:
Yes.

Content strategy: “For me, it’s just continuing to do it. Right? It’s, continuing to reevaluate often, it’s like, what questions am I getting repeatedly from people? Okay. If that’s what they’re asking for, let’s build some content around that.” ~ Paul

Julie [00:13:38]:
For their email address. It’s brilliant. You’re trading value for their email address. So what I want people to understand too is people will give you their email address. We’re just used to that in 2023. They’ll give you their email address.

However, as Paul had to do, as I had to do, as any CEO has to do, you are going to have to put some time into creating some kind of resource, that’s just part of being a business owner. You’re gonna have to create something.

Now please don’t get it twisted and think you’re gonna have to go create a 6 hour long video series just for their email. No. But something very simple. So to your point, it was a calendar. Like, here’s what’s happening in March. Right. Boom. Give us your email,

Paul [00:14:22]:
kind of thing. So and on the page where if they come to you from Google, right, and they’re landing on a page that lists all the pow wows in Florida, You have to put an opt in there. You have to ask them for your their email right there when they’re reading that information.

Hey. You wanna keep up to date on Florida pow wows? Give me your email address, and I’ll make sure you get them.

Julie [00:14:43]:
So this is one of the pieces from personal experience that you really taught me was why are you giving anything away for free? And free meaning not asking for that email address.

• You know, we all have knowledge.
• We all have value.
• We all have stuff that we’ve curated that we know, and people want that.
• We make it easier for them by sharing this information.

In return, we’re asking for their email. So for example, I had a list through an organization I support, bookshop.org, that supports independent bookstores across the country. And I was able to curate a list of my favorite books and kind of have it on this bookshelf.

And I was just giving this list away, and you told me last year, you’re like, okay. That stops today. You’re absolutely not doing that anymore. They want your list. They have to give you their email.

But now, Paul, now what I have is people coming into my ecosystem who value reading and personal growth, which are people that I would want anyway.

Except now I get to contact them. Now I actually get to talk to them.

I mean, it’s so genius. Okay. So you started figuring out, okay, here are the resources. I’m gonna trade you this resource for email, and then and then how where did it go from there? Like, how did you continue to grow it?

Paul [00:16:09]:
For me, it’s just continuing to do it. Right? It’s, continuing to reevaluate often, it’s like, what questions am I getting repeatedly? From people? Okay. If that’s what they’re asking for, let’s build some content around that.

Or if I already have content, maybe I’m not pushing it out. Pushing it out the right way. I’m not it’s not positioned the way it should be, But let’s figure out a way that I can deliver that to email and make sure that everybody sees it. Because the other thing for me is I have a big Facebook, right, or following on our page.

Hopefully, Within the next month, we should hit a million followers on Facebook.

Julie [00:16:50]:
1,000,000 followers on Facebook for powwows.com.

Paul [00:16:53]:
Yes. And that’s awesome. But I also know if I post something on Facebook that very few people are gonna see it.

Julie [00:17:00]:
That’s correct. That’s correct.

Content Strategy: Email Marketing Beats Social Media

Paul [00:17:01]:
So that’s another reason we just keep building and churning the email because I know when I send an email out, I know more people are gonna read it. So it’s it’s and for me, it’s it’s that rinse and repeat.

Like, what are people asking for? Then let me figure it out. Of course, I’m going to deliver it on social media. We’re of course, we’re gonna create a post, and we’re probably gonna post it multiple times. Right?

But I’m also gonna figure out how I can deliver that in email. Maybe if it’s a really big topic, Maybe it’s an email sequence. Right?

Julie [00:17:32]:
I do love me an email sequence.

Paul [00:17:35]:
Maybe it is a full segment of your audience that you need to build an email sequence around. Maybe it’s something bigger than just a single list of books. Right? Maybe it’s something bigger.

So that’s the thing I keep doing, and I’m adding sequences. You know, a couple times a year, we’re figuring out, reworking them based on the feedback we’re getting from users, but it’s just keeping email front of mind and not letting it sit over on the back burner, but just keep using it as that resource.

Listen to what your users are saying, and then just and just keep building and building and and re and changing iterations. You know? You gotta you gotta evolve with it.

But, yeah, that’s what we’ve been doing.

“What I find interesting is you’re saying that you’re about to hit a million people in a Facebook group, but not everyone is seeing your content. So what would make someone who thinks that they’ve got 1500 followers on Instagram think that everyone’s gonna see their content? Right. You know, it’s the same thing. It’s a percentage.” ~Julie

And we’re putting stuff out, and there’s so much stuff that’s being put out right now.

Also, let’s talk about the fact that, you know, this idea of niching down is so prevalent right now. Everyone’s talking about niche down, niche down. You did that back before it was, like, the buzzy cool thing to do.

So I have to assume that Native American culture was something you were passionately interested in, passionately curious about, wanted to share that culture, and you just decided I’m going all in on this passion that I have, this curiosity to have them wanna build a community around it.

Paul [00:19:05]:
Crazy thing is it wasn’t a business. It wasn’t a business idea. I was teaching myself how to build web pages in college, and I did it on the two things I was learning and and really into at the time.

I was just learning about pow wows. People were taking me to pow wows, teaching me how to do the outfits, teaching me the songs. So I built a few pages about that and just wanted to share my experiences. I also built a page about Star Wars toys. That one’s still out there. It hasn’t changed in 25 years.

That was before the prequels came out and the new trilogies and everything else. That was in that laul when there wasn’t any star wars content, so it just kinda sat. It was never intended to be a business, though.

It was just that people started coming and looking for that connection, looking for that way to feel like they are part of something bigger, especially the pow wow people. Because they’re used to having that feeling at the pow wow.

They wanted to extend it further.

Importance of niche marketing and prioritizing engagement metrics over vanity numbers

Julie [00:20:01]:
Well, what I love so much about this, though, is so many women and myself too, I mean, I include myself in all this. We get so nervous to niche down, and we’re so afraid. Well, if I’m only talking to a certain amount of people, I’m not talking to enough people.
And yet we know that if you’re talking to everyone, you’re not talking to anyone.

So you’re just really unapologetic and upfront. Like, if you’re not interested in powwows, I’m just really not for you, And I’m okay with that. Yes. I’m okay with that.

Paul [00:20:32]:
And… another thing I think we all get caught up in is these vanity numbers.

Metrics. And it’s cool. We are gonna celebrate when we hit a million.

As we should. But the more important numbers to me are what’s my open rate on my email? Yeah. What’s my click through rate? What are people actually engaging in? What’s resonating with them?

Those are the ones I really look at, and that’s where I’m concentrating my efforts. And if you only have 10 people subscribe to your email newsletter… Lou says this often, if 10 people were sitting in your living room and you got to pitch to them and tell them about your company, you’d be pretty excited.

Julie [00:21:10]:
Yeah.

Paul [00:21:10]:
Let’s see. Ignore these things. Right? You know? It’s a great way to talk to people. Use it.

Have Patience and Persistence in Pursuing Dreams

Julie [00:21:17]:
So, I mean, I just love this idea. Like, you just went after the niche. You niched down hard. This is who I am. This is what I wanna offer. This is what I’m gonna do. This is how I’m gonna grow. And long before you decided to make it a business and while you were working another job full time, full time

Paul [00:21:35]:
Yes.

Julie [00:21:36]:
You were building this and showing up for it, not just on the days that you kinda felt like it. Like, this is fun and convenient. No. I’m doing this every day because now I’m committed to do this. So I’m doing this, and I’m also working another job full time. I also have a spouse, and I also have a child.

Paul [00:21:52]:
Yes.

Julie [00:21:53]:
Who have full time jobs and busy lives. And you had a daughter marching band… I know all about that.

Paul [00:21:59]:
That’s not that it’s not easy. Right?

Julie [00:22:01]:
That’s not easy.

Significance of morning routines and habits in setting the tone for the day and positively impacting life

Paul [00:22:01]:
The schedule is not easy. For us, our family, we knew early on that as my wife’s I call her the conscious of powwows.com. She’s always the one that’s right there on my shoulder telling me good idea, bad idea.

Let’s head this direction or not. And when when it started growing and we we had to look at it, not it’s still really not looking at it as a business, but looking at it is if we’re gonna put money and time into this thing, and more importantly, time, right

Why are we doing this? And so our decision and kind of our thought process was, if we’re gonna spend all this time building something, Where do we want our family to be?

For us, we prioritize travel. And so it was that I’m working these crazy hours.

I’m putting in this extra work, working other side jobs too to make it all, you know, work out because we wanna travel. We wanna have experiences. And that’s what we did.

Julie [00:22:59]:
And you wanted powwows.com to eventually become the primary driver.

Paul [00:23:06]:
It was always a dream goal. It was pretty exciting that I was able to make that happen two years ago, and retire from the state and move to full time. That was always, you know, up on the vision board of one day, I’ll be full time with powowo.com. It was one of the 10 years ago, it was a goal. It was a dream. Never thought I’d get there.

Julie [00:23:25]:
You know, this is why we vibe. I think, Paul, this is why we vibe.

Because number 1, you’ve had the goal for a long time, and you didn’t give up on the goal. So you knew that every day you were working towards the goal, small, big, whatever you’re doing.

There was some action that was happening that was gonna go towards that goal, and you had it for a long time, and that was your goal.

And 2, you’re just willing to freaking work for it. And I think sometimes we forget that we can’t just put the vision on the vision board and look at it and go, that’s cute, and I hope that happens. No.

You just said I’m working a full time job, other jobs. We’re still trying to build this community. My wife’s working. We have our daughter’s schedule. I’m willing to work for the thing that I want to have happened in our life, and I’m willing to work for it for a long extended period of time.

Paul [00:24:14]:
Yeah. Looking back on it, we It was it was I was just what I was doing at the time, but, you know, looking back, I do think, wow. We did crazy things. You know? Like Yeah. At work, I stopped going to lunch with friends, and I would go and get in my car and drive to a spot somewhere and just work.

There were some days where I would get to work an hour early so that I could sit at my desk and work on my stuff before the day the workday started.

Julie [00:24:40]:
In a quiet place where you could focus. Yep.

Paul [00:24:42]:
I worked for the state of South Carolina. So during the state holidays, I went and rented a co-working space and went to work.

Paul [00:24:50]:
Yes. It was funny because I’d walk in the door, and they’re like, oh, what state holiday is it today, Ball? What are you here for? You know? But that’s what we did. Right?

Julie [00:24:57]:
Yeah. It’s don’t quit, don’t quit your day job, but keep working on your dream job.

Paul [00:25:04]:
Exactly. Right.

Julie [00:25:05]:
That’s so good. I just feel like especially in 2023 and this, you know, so fast culture, we want everything. We want it now. We want it right now. That we forget these kinds of dreams, these big kinds of dreams, they just take a long time to bake.

And you don’t give up on the dream. I’ve wanted to live in Florida since I was a baby, since I was 6 months old on our first trip. Well, I surely didn’t make that happen at 6 months old.

You know, they take a long time to bake. And if you are doing the actions every day, I mean, the time’s gonna pass anyway. The time’s gonna pass anyway. Yes. And now here you are and is your full time job. Right.

Okay. We’re going back to email because I wanna unpack this one piece where you said, I’m looking at the engagement rates on my email. I’m looking at the open rates, the click through rates.

And that is something that we took from you, and we had a recent launch. And as we were going through our emails, we were noticing, like, open rates were super high, click through rate not as much.

And it was an immediate opportunity to start assessing what’s keeping someone from clicking through? How do we need to fine tune our messaging? How do we need to communicate a little better? Do we communicate more?

Like, there’s just such an immediate opportunity for clarity that you wouldn’t get, I don’t think, as much from social media or from a group because it was happening in real time. Like, you could literally course correct before the next email went out.

Paul [00:27:48]:
Yes.

Julie [00:27:49]:
So talk to us about the well, okay.

Paul [00:27:51]:
That’s the stuff I find fun about email too. SEO is important. Social media is important, all these things. But, like, SEO can take a year before you’re gonna see any results. Right? Email, you’re getting feedback.

As soon as you send it out, you’re gonna start seeing what the click through rates are. What are people, what link are people clicking on? You’re gonna get that feedback right then, and you can then say, okay. In my next email, I better do something different.

Or You see something that really worked and like, okay. Oh. That worked. How do we repeat that?

Julie [00:28:20]:
Uh-huh. We found that. We found specifically just saying to people, reply back if you are interested and want more info or got nothing. But if I said reply with the word x for more info, do you know how easy that is for people? They don’t have to talk.

They don’t have to, there’s no message. There’s no commitment. There’s no they just reply back with whatever word it was, I’m like, okay. Now we have a conversation going.

Now we have a conversation going. And I think that, like, we just learned that in real time as well. So let’s go down to the fundamentals. We’ve got we’ll take we’ll, name her Sally. K. Sally is on social media, but she’s never done anything to build an email list. She’s got Instagram. She’s got Facebook.

She’s building a little side hustle business. We’ll say it’s in the health and wellness industry. We’ll just use that. And she’s never built an email list. Where does Sally start?

Paul [00:29:24]:
First thing she needs to do is put a link in her bio where she’s whatever system you’re using.

Julie [00:29:29]:
Sure.

Paul [00:29:30]:
One of them needs to be subscribed.

Julie [00:29:31]:
Okay.

Paul [00:29:32]:
Right? Join my email list. The next thing, I think she needs to look at her content, find out what’s working. Did the video where she posted doing morning yoga at Epcot or Hollywood Studios… Did that video go viral? Okay. Why did it?

Julie [00:29:47]:
Right.

Paul [00:29:47]:
What were the comments?

Julie [00:29:49]:
Right.

Paul [00:29:49]:
What made people watch that video? Okay. If it was that they wanted to, you know, get into a routine of doing more morning yoga, then let’s figure out how we can put that on the website and ask for people’s email.

You know, what’s the opt in? Right? Maybe you’re gonna come up with a here’s my 5 habits that will help you to get up every morning and start your day with what’s right.

And put that on the website, build you a little PDF that you can deliver, and start asking for email.

Julie [00:30:19]:
And let’s not get crazy. That PDF can be on Canva. Sure. That PDF can be on Canva people, so let’s not be like, oh, now I gotta hire someone out. You can hire a virtual assistant if you have the means and the opportunity and you can find someone, absolutely.

Don’t get shy about hiring and outsourcing something that you’re not as skilled at, but you can also go freaking Canva and make a graphic.

Paul [00:30:41]:
Or even easier if you don’t have the Canva skills, just tell them you’re gonna deliver them the list and write an email. And just automate the email.

Julie [00:30:48]:
Write an email. Right?

Paul [00:30:50]:
And if there’s sometimes I don’t even automate the email. Right? It’s a manual reply. Right. So if they sign up, you see they sign up, then you write them back.

Julie [00:30:58]:
Right. Because if you’re just starting out, it’s not like you’re gonna be swarmed with thousands of emails. So let’s take that off the… I get that so often. You know, women will say, oh gosh. What am I gonna do when I build a six figure business?

I’m like, how about we make $60 this week? And then we’ll worry about that… Let’s not, like, be asking for the worry before we’ve even gotten there yet. Alright.

Paul [00:31:22]:
Let’s do the first 10 subscribers. Don’t worry about a 100.

Julie [00:31:24]:
Correct. That’s correct. So what platform do you love for email?

Paul [00:31:35]:
I love and I have been on it for about 3 years now, 4 years, ConvertKit.

Julie [00:31:40]:
That’s what we use.

Paul [00:31:40]:
Yes. Yeah. To me, their tools are built for creators, and they’re built for better email engagement. I came off of Mailchimp, and Mailchimp is a great platform. I think they focus a little too much on the email templates, the look of your email. Whereas ConvertKit is more about helping you deliver the right message to the right people.

Julie [00:32:04]:
Yeah. That’s when we started that. We were on Mailchimp. We transferred over to ConvertKit, and we had you know, I’ve got a decent email subscriber list going. But then when you and I started having conversations, Paul, let me just tell you.

It’s Important To Purge Your Email List Regularly

When you told me to purge my email list, It was like you told me to I don’t I don’t even know. It was like the waters parted, and I was like, what is happening right now? When you were like, get people off that email list, that was the biggest gift. Talk to us about why someone even needs to be thinking about that even as they’re just building.

Paul [00:32:46]:
It is such a freeing experience to purge your list, But I know, and I’ve talked to many people, it is a scary thing to do because you work so hard to get those email subscribers.

But, again, for me, I want to deliver my message to the right people. Right. So if they’re not opening your message, if they’re not clicking on the links, get them off.

Julie [00:33:12]:
They’re not your people.

Paul [00:33:13]:
They’re not your people, and that’s okay. It’s about finding your people, so let them move on, and you move on too. I always find it funny when I tell people when I do a purge, I do it about quarterly. I’m usually purging 15 to 20000 subscribers at a time.

Julie [00:33:29]:
I know. When you told me that, I’m like, okay. That is the amount of people I have on my list. You are purging them, but I did have people. And here’s the thing. Maybe this is a female thing. Do you wanna turn around? Yeah. Maybe this is a female thing.

Julie [00:33:46]:
I think sometimes when you know that there are people who are getting your email and they aren’t opening it, sometimes that is a, like, a piece of mental baggage that you’re carrying around.

I don’t know what it is, but you know that those people are getting your emails. You know that information is going out, and you know that they’re not doing anything with it. And you’re, like, dragging that around.

And when you purge that, you’re like there’s it is so freeing. Like, I’m just talking to my people now. I’m just talking to my people who actually wanted this information. They asked for this information.

Julie [00:34:15]:
They actually raised their hand for this information, And they’re like my community. It was the best feeling.

Paul [00:34:22]:
So here’s a couple of important things about purging. One, we’re talking about getting feedback on our email list. Right?

Julie [00:34:28]:
Right.

Paul [00:34:29]:
If you have an extra like, in my case, if I have an extra 10,000 people on my email list that aren’t opening, aren’t engaging, My statistics are gonna be different.

Julie [00:34:37]:
Right.

Paul [00:34:38]:
So I keep that purge going so I know that my statistics are good, and I can rely on them.

Julie [00:34:44]:
So that the information you’re delivering is valuable.

Paul [00:34:46]:
Right. Two, if you’re gonna go on ConvertKit, it is a little more pricey than other programs.

Paul [00:34:51]:
So you do wanna purge it because it’s gonna cut your bill down.

Paul [00:35:03]:
So here’s a cool thing that just happened to me because I have the fear too. It’s like, what if I unsubscribe somebody that really wanted the information, but they just haven’t read it yet.

I had somebody reply to me. It’s been about 3, 4 weeks ago. I think I posted it in Lou’s Facebook group. The email was more than 10 years old, and they had it in their inbox, and they finally replied to me.

Julie [00:35:29]:
Oh my gosh.

Paul [00:35:30]:
And now they’re reengaged with the community. They resubscribed. So it’s not…

Julie [00:35:37]:
Also, where’s that person been their inbox? That’s insane.

Paul [00:35:40]:
I don’t wanna see their inbox. That scares me and makes me anxious that somebody has a 10 year old email sitting in their inbox, but the information is still there. And when they want to engage with you, they’ll come back. It’s okay.

Julie [00:35:52]:
So you would suggest Sally, who’s brand new, goes to ConvertKit, starts a very base level membership. That’s where you would start. And then put that ability to subscribe on whatever social media platform that you might be using.

And then, Sally, I’m talking to you. You have to start advertising and telling people that they can subscribe to you. That is something I forget to do, Paul. I’m just gonna be honest with you. I get people when I’m I…. I should say I don’t forget it when I’m running, let’s say, a challenge.

You know, maybe I do a no snooze challenge or we do a reading challenge or a walking the steps challenge or something. And to get the tracker, because I learned this from you, they have to give me their email.

But other than that, I do forget to remind people, hey. You can just subscribe. You know, on the daily, I just forget to do that. So I’m gonna tell Sally, I’m telling you from experience and all our listeners, that is something that I have to work on, but we have to remind people that that is an option.

Paul [00:36:58]:
And I’ve seen it when I’ve audited people’s websites and we talk about their email. There are lots of people out there, and this is a very common mistake. They’re not putting an email opt-in box on the content of their page. They’re just putting it on their front page.

Paul [00:37:11]:
They’re about us page. Remember where people land on your website. They’re probably not landing on your front page. So if you did build that great article about your most recent trip to watch the new fireworks show at Epcot. You have to put an email opt in there.

I think it’s also important to go ahead when you’re first starting out and build a couple of landing pages. For people who aren’t familiar, a landing page is just a simple page with a few lines of text and an email box. Right.

And this is where I really think you should segment down. Have a landing page for the different parts of your business. So for powwows.com, I have a landing page for the calendar. Okay. And so if people want that information.

If they want to find out when the next pow wow is, I tell them, hey, go subscribe to my newsletter, powwows.com – powwows near me. And that takes them specifically to that page and the only thing on that page is an email opt in box.

Julie [00:38:08]:
That’s amazing. So one one activity that we tried to do within my email is, to your point, segment just a little bit. Yeah. You know, who might be subscribing to my email, which is totally fine, but they’re already in the network, the network of the business that I’m in. And then who are new people?

I am thrilled the people who are already in my business are subscribing to my newsletter. I’m very honored. I’m grateful that you want my stuff in your inbox. And if it gives you some motivation, I am so for that.

However, at the same time, I also want new people because new is the lifeblood of any business. So we have been working to segment just a little bit because that way, if I’m talking about an opportunity to join me in the business, I’m not sending it to someone who already is in the business, they’re not gonna open that.

So it’s just gonna to your point, the data’s not going to be reflective of…

Importance of Engaging With Subscribers and Providing Value To Build A Strong Email List

Paul [00:39:06]:
And this is where I think ConvertKit really excels because you can build those kinds of automations. You can say, hey. If you’re on this list, don’t get these emails. Right? There’s some really good tools in ConvertKit to exclude people and include people. Right. And, yeah, and I use that. And going back to what I was saying about Sally in this landing page, I think it’s important really early on. Don’t worry about broadcast messages.

These messages you’re gonna send out your weekly email. Don’t worry about those. Build that first sequence. Build that: what are the five things that you would tell a person to come into your business?

Build your simple 5-email sequence first and share your opt-in often.

What are your five pillar pieces of content or your five things that your business is about. Write those emails automated so that when you get a new subscriber, everybody’s gonna get the same five messages. I think that’s more important than worry about sending out this weekly email.

Julie [00:39:54]:
I agree.

Paul [00:39:54]:
And this cadence of what am I gonna say? And I’m… don’t worry about it.

Julie [00:39:57]:
Right. And I think that for anyone in the health and wellness space, An easy route to go is the recipe route. I mean, I’m not a foodie, so that’s, like, that doesn’t resonate with me, but I know it resonates with a lot of people.

They’re looking for quick, maybe dessert recipes or healthy swaps at the holidays or a soup recipe or snack ideas for their kids or things like that.

And if you’re someone who has discovered that information and discovered that tool, That’s what you do with your email. That’s what you do with your freemium is you get to shorten someone’s learning curve by sharing that information that you have figured out.

Paul [00:40:41]:
And that is so important. What you put in your email doesn’t have to be groundbreaking…. it doesn’t have to be new even. You can take things off your website. Remember, people might not have read it. They might not have resonated with them at the time.

Your email just needs to be what is it that you know that I don’t.

Julie [00:41:00]:
Yes. Right? In a way that you figured out.

Paul [00:41:03]:
Yeah. In your unique way, in your character, your personality, your perspective, That’s what people want. They want your unique take on whatever it is they’re looking for.

Julie [00:41:13]:
Paul, this has been so great. So as people are digging into this idea of email and really owning this piece of their business to bring more joy and connection back to their business. Do you have some resources? Where can they go to work more even with you?

Paul [00:41:27]:
I’d love to talk and help you out with your email. Paul Gatto dot com is the place where I have all that information. I’m working on some courses, hopefully, coming out in the first of the year, some mini courses.

We’ll build some small, easy, digestible topics like courses on how to build a segment, how to build, you know, how to get started, And these kinds of things. So, yeah, reach out to me, Paul Goddard.com. I’d love to help you build your email.

Julie [00:41:49]:
Okay. And listen to me right now. If you have an opportunity to work with Paul, do it because I don’t really know how many people he has on his email list, but I think it could be, like, 6 figures.

And so he knows that of which he speaks. And working with Paul has definitely changed the way I do business, the way I look at email, and how I communicate. And if you dig into these tools and dig into this platform of email, I think it’ll bring you more connection and more joy in your business, which is what I think we all want. Paul, this has been so great. The walk’s been great.

The talk’s been great. This has been amazing. Move down here so we can do this more often. Thank you so much for being on.

Paul [00:42:26]:
Thank you.

Meet Paul Gowder

Move the needle and grow an impactful business that supports your goals. 

By combining community-building and marketing strategies, Paul has been able to build one of the largest and most engaged online communities in the world while working full-time.

He’d like to share this knowledge with you so that you can scale a business that supports your lifestyle. Whether your dream is to finally book that Disney Cruise, travel to Tahiti on a Tuesday, or have extra middle-of-the-day time with your family, creating an intentional business makes your desired lifestyle possible.